[x] Posthumous membership

What's the rulings on bands some of whose personnel are dead?

[en.wikipedia.org] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centigrade_232

Had to be Hawkwind, didn't it ...

The article goes:

"Voiceprint Records label head Rob Ayling passed a copy of the cassette tape of Calvert's recitations onto Dave Brock and asked him to set some of the titles to music. The music was played by the then current line-up of Hawkwind, but some titles were lost at the mixing stage delaying the release until August 2007.

The Brock/Calvert Project
All words by Robert Calvert. All music by Dave Brock, except 9 and 11 by Brock and Jason Stuart
"First Landing on Medusa"
"The Siren"
"Ode to a Timeflower"
"Small Boy (The Swing)"
"Centigrade 232"
"Dance Steps"
"The Naked and the Transparent Man Gives Thanks"
"The Cupboard"
"Long Time Friend"
"Letter of Complaint to the Council"
"Locked In"
"Some Sketches of a Hand"

Personnel:

Robert Calvert – recitation
Dave Brock – guitar, synths, keyboards, vocals
Jason Stuart – keyboards
Alan Davey – bass
Richard Chadwick – drums
Trixie Smith – vocals"

No. You can't be a member of a group if you didn't give informed consent. If Calvert had recorded these recitations at a time when he was part of Hawkwind AND with the intent that they would be a Hawkwind release - then there would be two line-ups on it; the first might consist of only Calvert or the then-current line-up (we could argue that later) and the second of the now-current line-up that completed the recordings. But you can't grab his stuff, work it up and proclaim him a member of Hawkwind. Chronology alone would define that the rec dates would insist that we split the line-up - but for me he's not even a member of the band on this.

[bandtoband.com] http://bandtoband.com/index.php?Page=Search&AlbumId=7086

Well that's wrong too. If someone had asked John Lennon at any point between the day he made that demo and the day he died "Are you a member of the Beatles?", he would have said "No."

Therefore it's wrong as we have it. Personally - I'd have just a 3-piece Beatles for that track. If Lennon didn't even give his own consent - he can't be a member. That one seems very clear-cut to me.

I like your focus on the free will of the artist. While admirable, it's just not the way the music business works. The artists (dead or alive) does not always make decisions about his/her art when they start signing contracts with big business.

i haven't looked into it yet, but we might have a similar situation on Wu-Tang's 8 Diagrams, finished after ODB had died.

scott - I accept that the artist's works can be re-formatted, subsumed, re-worked, re-released, re-credited or re-assigned by sinster entities. And if not by Yoko Ono, then the record company may even get involved. However, what they cannot do is change fact: that John Lennon was never a member of the Beatles during or after the recording of that track.

I know what you are getting at. However, I also think the rest of the Beatles would consider him a member for the purposes of those songs.

some Calvert spoken word recordings also made it on to a Spirits Burning recording:
[www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/index.php?PageField=Wiki&ActionField=var&Album...
i think his contribution seems more like a sample.

We should treat posthumous "participation" in bands that they were not part of like non-membership samples. A few months ago I adjusted the Beatles entries to reflect that.

My understanding is that Lennon was NOT in the Beatles when he recorded those vocal tracks. Am I wrong on that?

You are correct, sir.

So is the Lennon lineup from a song on the B-side?

Yes. Each single came in multiple formats with different Beatles songs from the 1960s that include Lennon.

I'm still of the opinion that dead people can be added to bands. If they are legally part of the band for royalties, then they are band members, breathing or not.

A Beatles lineup with Lennon singing and no Lennon in it is ridiculous.

Even if we had a "once a Beatle, always a Beatle" exception, Lennon missed the 1994-95 recording sessions and can't appear in the lineup for those sessions.