[x] TSO

I know I said before that I don't think TSO should be in the database. I probably can't change anything about that but the fact TSO is listed with 22 band members is just plain wrong.

OK, I have to admit, I don't own the album that's in the DB but I do have the first two TSO records. On the first one, the line-up is Robert Kinkel/Johny Lee Middleton/Jon Oliva/Paul O'Neill/Al Pitrelli and Jeff Plate. On the second one they added Chris Caffery as an extra member. All the other musicians are credited either as "vocal solos", "vocal backups", members from a child choir or some church choir. All these people either sing backup on some songs or just do one vocal solo in one song. Some of them probably do join TSO on tour, though.

Example: Danielle Landherr is credited on the first album for doing back-up vocals. Taking your example from the rules pages, I doubt she can fire the rest of the "21 band members" and continue as TSO with a bunch of other musicians.

The brains behind TSO are Kinkel, O'Neill and Oliva (why isn't he credited in the db?). The other guys from Savatage are in TSO because it was convenient since Oliva is the mastermind behind Savatage and Kinkel and O'Neill are longtime producers of that band. The rest of the musicians (mostly vocalists) are hired guns, simple as that.

I don't know about John O. Reilly, he probably did join TSO because they have to split up when they are on tour so they need two drummers anyway. But as far as I'm concerned, all those vocalists should be kicked out of the database.

Although the 'intent' of the band and the relative merits of members may be difficult to judge, some things just feel plain 'wrong'. I've struggled with Uli Jon Roth & Electric Sun as well ... where no distinction is made between Uli, core musos and various backing vocalists and instrumentalists ...

Is there any distinction or ranking among band members?

I don't really care either way about this "band" but the credits seem to treat all participants the same, just as any other symphonic orchestra would:
[www.cduniverse.com] http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6783228&style=music&cart=2...
[www.cduniverse.com] http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1243188&style=music&cart=2...
[www.cduniverse.com] http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1098027&style=music&cart=2...

We don't have anything against having classical ensembles, orchestras, whatever (I don't know the right terms) in the database. I'm sure the membership of those things can number in the hundreds.

That's the phrase used in the rules. I have no real insight into the TSO's ways of working but I guess I'd just pose the question whether Chris Caffery, Alex Skolnick, Paul O'Neill, Angus Clark and Tristan Avakian, Al Pitrelli and Dave Wittman (who are all credited with guitar) ever ALL collaborated, played, appeared or even met (physically, digitally or metaphysically!!) during the recording of this album. Maybe they did. But if not, might that not indicate that someone (or a few someones) are the hub of the enterprise and some others are little more than session players. If any two players who are listed in the same line-up of any band don't appear to have collaborated: surely that says something's amiss with that line-up?

These are the credits of the "The Christmas Attic":

[users.pandora.be] http://users.pandora.be/laureyns/tso.jpg

I think one of my friends has the album that's in the db, I'll try to take a picture of it. It could be they changed their "band" philosophy after the Xmas Attic. I have to admit I lost interest in TSO after their second album and haven't bothered to check out what's going on with them ever since.

misterpomp: those guys probably did all meet :) But I doubt they all played together since every year there's an 'East Coast tour' and a 'West Coast tour' at the same time.

O/T: I really need a scanner again. Taking pictures of booklets isn't really the way to go :)

Hehe, I ask to reduce the number of band members and you guys add an extra one :)

You convinced us. If you look at your scan, there's a clear distinction between the band members on the far right (whose names are set off and in bold font) and the hired help in the middle and far left columns.

In keeping with this approach, I deleted all those from the listing for "The Lost Christmas Eve" who did not provide any instrumentation. Then I took another look at the CDUniverse entry and saw that CDUniverse has interpreted the credits for that album the very same way, with the exception of Jennifer Cella, who is the sole vocalist listed:

[www.cduniverse.com] http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6783228&style=music&cart=2...

In contrast, the full musician listing available at allmusic.com includes members of the hired back-up choirs and orchestras, numbering about 75 members in all:

[www.allmusic.com] http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=ADFEAEE47F1ADA4DAF7420C9932D4...

The end result was a decrease of only one member though, because

1) I added back the instrumental band members who I had previously excluded (simply because they had not performed live with TSO and I once thought this was important)

and

2) I followed CDUniverse's example and included Jennifer Cella.

What we really need is for someone to check the liner notes of the album.

[www.trans-siberian.com] http://www.trans-siberian.com/about/theband.shtml lists 30 band members and that's excluding those that didn't play live on the last couple of tours.

I'm still trying to get hold of those liner notes.

I'm afraid that guy, who I thought has the album, doesn't have it after all. The quest continues...