[x] Non-Music albums

How far should we go in documenting recordings of established cohesive groups of people? Should we allow band interviews? Spoken word albums? Books on tape? Comedy albums? A video recording of highlights of the L.A. Dodgers' 1996 season?

Or should we stick to something obvious like bands releasing music? Should the presence of music be the defining characteristic of what qualifies a recording as eligible for inclusion in the b2b database?

I was thinking about this.

I mean, i don't consider Celine Dion music.

Seriously, though. The line between rap and spoken word gets blurred. Slam poetry is basically acapella rap. We would include Celine Dion wailing acapella, so why not a Sage Francis 7" without beats.

I bring up Sage (who i have been trying to get into the dB forever) because he is a hip hop artist who has released a 7" of purely "spoken word" material. His live shows usually contain a few "songs" without beats. To include the rest of his stuff, but not that record wouldn't make any sense.

But, it does seem silly to include that 1976 Golden State Warriors championship season highlights LP i used to listen to weekly as a kid.

On a related note, i have that we include DVDs in the dB. I would like to limit it to just audio releases.

I'm thinking that comedy and spoken word should be allowed, but interviews, sports highlights and books on tape/CD should not. The basis for my thinking is that comedy and spoken word stuff conveys performance in a way that a book on tape/CD really doesn't.

(That said, I'd also stipulate that whatever performance there might be has to be the primary reason for the existence of the recording. In other words, U2's halftime performance on the Super Bowl XXXVI DVD does not constitute a b2b entry, since its primary reason to exist is to show the highlights of the game. However, the same performance on a compilation of Super Bowl halftime shows would be allowed, as the primary reason for such a recording to exist would be to showcase the music.)

This might be a little too arbitrary for b2b, but it feels right to me.

I think it should all go in, as long as it meets the criterion of b2b. Even so far as an album recording the sound of a speedway meet at which Keith Emerson, Nick Mason and Cozy Powell are competing - 100% eligible in my books.

Interviews - no
Spoken word albums - Depends on whether it's "slam poetry" or similar (something which could be described as "musical" in some sense)
Books on tape - no
Comedy albums - not unless they contain a musical performance
Highlights of the Dodgers - no

This is not "mediaproducers.com". Most types of media are not music. We should not include them.

I'm mostly with pk. Interviews no, recordings of the FA Cup Final no. But I'm against poetry too unless it's sung. I would allow properly credited performances released 'incidentally' on other formats. Many PC/console games have a credited 'soundtrack' within them - I see no reason that those can't come into b2b - although their value is pretty limited.

Sure, VG soundtrack albums are equally valid to movie soundtracks (or anything else soundtracks).

"But I'm against poetry too unless it's sung."

I have to register my strong disagreement with this statement. I don't think we want to get into a debate about what is defined as "singing." I mean if someone reading poetry uses two different registers does it then qualify as "singing?"

Plus it shows a bias against hip hop, and i don't think that is where we want to go.

I think misterpomp means that, for instance, the game Quake could be entered into the database as a release by Trent Reznor. There was no soundtrack CD for the game, but he did the in-game music. Is that what you mean?

There are a lot of movies where the score doesn't get released as a CD. Are you suggesting that the movies themselves be allowed in the db in those cases? That would be just like the videogame music case. I don't think that works. I think the release should be some kind of musical format, either a CD/LP/whatever or a concert/video DVD.

As for poetry, I think you can draw a distinction between an a capella Public Enemy release and a recording of Trent Reznor reading Emily Dickinson. It would be non-trivial to codify, though.

Oh, I think I misunderstood misterpomp, now that I reread him. I suspect I would disallow stuff like Quake, or the Sonic Mayhem-performed soundtrack for its sequel. I don't know. I'm not sure I would claim that a larger work of art which contains music by a band/artist itself is an "official release". If we said that, then not only would movies themselves be fair game, but it seems like it would also call into question why live performances (and not just _recordings_ of live performances) wouldn't be allowed. Maybe I'm painting the slope as more slippery than it really is :)

I would still disallow poetry and if that's bias against hip hop - so be it - much of that doesn't fit my definition of music anyway. But that's just my view.
As for video games - I wouldn't allow something on the grounds that it just happened to include a song - but where the game included a credited soundtrack I'd certainly give that consideration.

Fair enough.

Hopefully it's obvious that we shouldn't allow misterpomp's musical taste to define what gets entered into the dB.

Musical taste - no. At some point definition of music might become important. It's not my view that's important but a consensus that we should find and are attempting to find. If I, for example, find the cadences and nuances of the revs of a Grand Prix LP (the motor racing not the band) more musical than much hip hop (and I probably do) that should not be forced on everybody else - I suspect that the general view would be that it's not.

But you have already stated that much of hip hop doesn't fit your definition of music. I don't think there is any valid argument to keep hip hop out of the dB.

Being that poetry is basically acapella hip hop, there is no logical distinction to be made between poetry and other acapella "singing."

Speedway noises are a different argument altogether, and not necessarily tied to this specific one.

... or half the Reading scene (once we have that vital link released on CD, I've nagged him) becomes ineligible. ;-)

What about unusual recordings, such as

Movies?
I'm pretty sure we have one instance in the database of a band whose only recorded appearance is in a scene of a movie (performing live) that was later publicly sold as a video recording, the same way all the DVDs in the database were.

TV Shows?
[bandtoband.com] http://bandtoband.com/index.php?Page=Search&AlbumId=16467 has the earliest appearance of The Evens.

Video Games?
[en.wikipedia.org] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_Hero_III:_Legends_of_Rock contains plenty of music, some not available elsewhere. As far as I know, it will be the only place to find publicly-released music by the Bret Michaels Band.