[x] Marilyn Manson gives me a headache

We've received several submissions that ask us to add Marilyn Manson through former member Jeordie White (aka Twiggy Ramirez), who is now a member of A Perfect Circle, or through Scott Mitchell Putesky (aka Daisy Berkowitz), who also played in Jack Off Jill.

Historically, we have treated the musical entity Marilyn Manson as a solo artist because the lead singer's stage name is identical to the "band" name, in clear violation of Rule 7e. Judging by the amount of times that Brian Warner has given interviews as "Marilyn Manson" and by the fact that he's the only person that will probably never leave the band, it seemed that we could not apply the exception provided by Rule 7e. But what about Rule 7f--Is Marilyn Manson a band in the same sense that Alice Cooper was a band for the first five albums? (See Rule 7f: The Cooper Effect).

I tried to get around these questions by finding a release under the original name of the band, Marilyn Manson & The Spooky Kids, which they used from 1989 until 1992. That name would get us around the Rule 7 solo artist issues without much trouble. Thankfully, there was such a release: a compilation of Florida bands put together in 1991 (but not released until 2000!?) called The Funnel Zone (see [bandtoband.com] http://bandtoband.com/index.php?Page=Search&AlbumId=3186 ), which features two songs credited to Marilyn Manson & The Spooky Kids. I happily added this album, which linked through Scott Mitchell Putesky, to the family tree and thought my work was done.

But no! After Putesky left Marilyn Manson, he obtained the legal rights to the name The Spooky Kids and organized a release of the band's early recordings. The press releases for that album insist that the early name of the band was The Spooky Kids, as opposed to Marilyn Manson & The Spooky Kids. That presents a new problem: if there's a release by The Spooky Kids, the anti-collaboration principle behind Rules 5 and 8b prohibits me from entering Marilyn Manson & The Spooky Kids into the tree and forces me instead to go with the album by The Spooky Kids. But was there ever really a band with that name? Weren't they actually known as MM&TSK and not just TSK? I'm no Marilyn Manson expert, so I really don't know. But whether or not there really ever was a standalone band called The Spooky Kids back in the day, there certainly was one as of 2004 because that's how the band is named on the CD.

Do I go with The Spooky Kids? And what about Marilyn Manson? Is it a "he" or a "they"? And if it's a "they" that qualifies for the rarely used Rule 7f exception, is Marilyn Manson & The Spooky Kids still barred by the anti-collaboration rules? Perhaps not-- afer all, aren't Marilyn Manson, Marilyn Manson & The Spooky Kids, and The Spooky Kids just different names for the very same band?

Are we having fun yet?

-Mark

First off we need to confirm that Brian Warner a.k.a. Marilyn Manson has not legally changed his name to Marilyn Manson. If he has not then we can assume that Marilyn Manson is still a stage name which is recognized as the individual as much as it the band which would then fall under Rule 7f. It seems that Mark naturally wants to lend some credance to the fact that the stage name Marilyn Manson is far more known than the individual's real name of Brian Warner:

"But what about Rule 7f--Is Marilyn Manson a band in the same sense that Alice Cooper was a band for the first five albums? (See Rule 7f: The Cooper Effect)."

I prefer to interpret the Rules as absolutes. If Marilyn Manson is not Brian's legal name then I believe a strict analysis of the Rules would dictate that the name should still be regarded as a stage name and once that is determined we can move on with further analysing the Rules and how to apply them in this circumstance. So then, is Marilyn Manson still only a stage name or is it the artist's legal name now?


Kevin

I can't find anything that suggests that Brian Warner changed his name to Marilyn Manson. In fact, the various instances of "p/k/a" on these three sites, all from 2004, seem to suggest just the opposite:

[www.indiemusician.com] http://www.indiemusician.com/2004/06/marilyn_manson_.html
[www.luckmedia.com] http://www.luckmedia.com/spookykids/pressrelease.html
[www.editorial.xtvworld.com] http://www.editorial.xtvworld.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=...

It seems that what we have here is a "band" name that also happens to be the stage name of the prime band member.

-Mark

Seems like a similar situation to Alice Cooper then, so surely all you need to decide is whether it's a "band" or a solo effort with guests and session musicians. Personally I don't care, (especially as MM is already on the site) because in this instance it's the music that gives me the headache! ;)

Kate

According to the links Mark provided, Marilyn Manson is a stage name for Brian Warner and therefore the band Marilyn Manson should be added as a legitmate band and in the line-up the name Brian Warner should appear. That is the deliniation between a solo artist and stage name. Although Warner appears in public under his stage name, this is a clear example of Rule 7f where the stage name is recognized to an equal degree as the band and is therefore allowed.

The trick now is to interpret the consequences with The Spooky Kids since Marilyn Manson is thought of as a band and two band collaberating do not qualify. Perhaps a theme for a seperate thread.


Kevin

Not only did I swap Marilyn Manson in for Marilyn Manson & The Spooky Kids, but I found several references on the band's official website ( [www.mansonusa.com] http://www.mansonusa.com/ ) to the band as just The Spooky Kids. I like when things work out nicely like that.