[x] Is this allowed before I enter it?

[en.wikipedia.org] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Score_(album)

Is this Octavarium Orchestra (or Dream Theater & The Octavarium Orchestra) an eligible entity for inclusion in the db? They're featured on the cover as "Live with the Octavarium Orchestra" so as far as I'm concerned, they did valid recordings under that name which were released by Dream Theater.

I agree. This could go in twice. Once as Dream Theater, and once as Dream Theater & The Octavarium Orchestra (if no previous entries) "released by Dream Theater."

Why? I'm having a hard time understanding why this tiny font orchestra would be any different from the credited guests that show up on other albums, e.g.

[en.wikipedia.org] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%26M_(album)
or
[www.cduniverse.com] http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1106528/a/Moment+Of+Glory%3A+The+S...
or
The All Star Review on the first Bon Jovi album.

Seems like they are clearly credited on some of the tracks. The album is divided into "Dream Theater" songs and "Dream Theater & The Octavarium Orchestra" songs.

Your argument seems to be that the mention on the cover actually disqualifies them from getting "released by" status on some of the songs. Most "released by" releases we have don't even get a mention on the front cover.

And, based on that cover, I don't see why that Philharmonic wouldn't get equal credit with the Scorpions.

I would love to see you tell those musicians in their face that they're a "tiny font orchestra" :p

[images.coveralia.com] http://images.coveralia.com/audio/d/Dream_Theater-Score-Trasera.jpg

shows the crediting on the back of the album. There's a clear distinction between the tracks performed by Dream Theater and the ones performed by "Dream Theater With The Octavarium Orchestra". Although one could probably argue whether "with" justifies a collab.

But apart form being a collab or not, "The Octavarium Orchestra" is clearly equally credited as a performer on the back so in my book this justifies a seperate entry if we can link them to the db (in case the collab is not valid).


Also, slightly related; I think "The All Star Review" qualifies as a recording unit that performed on Bon Jovi's Runaway song because they're clearly credited as such in the booklet.
And while we're at it, [en.wikipedia.org] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaway_(Bon_Jovi_song) proofs we need a one-man Bon Jovi lineup since the song was released as a single in '83 before the debut album came out (unless that cover image isn't the original one, dunno).

One of our earlier discussions about the one-person lineup of Bon Jovi and the All Star Review is at [www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1394

I'm not convinced that the All Star Review can get into b2b because, as I said then, this "doesn't seem to be a situation in which the song or the release is attributed solely to the All Star Review or to Bon Jovi And The All Star Review."

See [www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/images/evidence/live/11764.1.jpg and you will see the only place that The All Star Review is mentioned. They are listed as guests on a track. The track is not credited to Bon Jovi And The All Star Review.

As far as Dream Theater goes, the site has a high bar for allowing collaborations and for using the "released by" category. The latter category applies only when a song on a release by the primary band is directly credited to a different band.

In this case, we have a situation in which the "different" band is really the primary band "with" a second band. It is clear that the album, as a whole, is credited solely to Dream Theater (just look at the spine), which should create a strong presumption that anyone else on the album is merely a guest. The word "with" is a pretty weak collaborative word, one that we usually treat as denoting guest status. Take a look at [www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/images/evidence/live/31012.2.jpg for the DVD credits, which are even weaker than the CD credits.

If this album -- [www.discogs.com] http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=430575 -- used "with" instead of "featuring" would it create a dozen new collaborations that meet the b2b standard? What about if each song's credits took the form "RUN DMC With _____"?

I'm not necessarily in favor of a new band called "Dream Theater With The Actovarium Orchestra" but to me it's pretty clear that "The Octovarium Orchestra" is a valid recording unit. So is "The All Star Review" IMO. Both of them have recorded material which was released by Dream Theater and Bon Jovi respectively. The fact that their respective audio recordings also contain contributions by Dream Theater and John Bongiovi is irrelevant IMO: they have recorded material, it was officially released and it's clearly credited to them.

I haven't checked whether The Octovarium Orchestra can be linked to the DB though but The All Star Review can be linked through Roy Bittan.