[x] Collaboration by recording date or release date?

"Wayne Kramer & The Pink Fairies" released "Cocaine Blues" in 2000, while recorded in 1974 and 1978. Kramer released his first solo in 1978, Pink Faries in 1971.

If the recording in 1974 had been released at the time we would not consider it a collab, but a band. But since it was released *after* the first release of WK solo, by our rules, *technically* we *do* consider it a collab, because, being released in 2000, it came out after WK's solo.

Which do we go with?

Rules seem clear about it being the release that counts:

[www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/page/rules
"6b. Independent parties within a collaboration are defined as bands who have released material independently of one another prior to the release of the collaborative effort."

Does it make sense to consider revisiting this? It seems to me it might make sense to change it if the recording and release are many years apart.

First problem with that would be that rec dates are less findable than release dates. Second problem would be that it puts many of the connective collabs live at risk of being broken up. Whenever an artist/band who had no prior solo decides to release some old demos.

I'm not sure this is a collaboration either way. Only the lineup with Wallis would have been able to lay claim to the Pink Fairies moniker. Per Colquhoun's own website that band was referred to as the MC1:
[andycolquhoun.com] http://andycolquhoun.com/history
"Pretty soon WAYNE KRAMER came to town and we had a blast at Dingwalls Dancehall in Camden Lock. The band, known as the MC1, had Larry Wallis on guitar, George Butler on drums, Wayne Kramer, guitar and vocal and I played bass. Captain Trip has released the full recording on 'Wayne Kramer, Live At Dingwalls' CTCD260. Several tracks from the show appear on 'Wayne Kramer and the Pink Fairies' which is available from Wayne's website."

At least two of the songs (I'm assuming the same versions) by the lineup with Paul Carrack were released as a single by Wayne Kramer:
[www.motorcitymusicarchives.com] http://www.motorcitymusicarchives.com/waynekramer.html
[www.discogs.com] http://www.discogs.com/Wayne-Kramer-The-Harder-They-Come/release/2619707

It also appears the other two songs were released as a Wayne Kramer single:
[www.discogs.com] http://www.discogs.com/Wayne-Kramer-Ramblin-Rose/release/1039726

Interesting. Any ideas what to do with this? Seems to be a compilation of all sorts of stuff after all.

Tracks 1-4 and 9-10 were original WK solo, tracks 6 and 7 also appear to be an old WK single. Haven't tracked down the origin of tracks 5 and 8 ("Do you love me" and "Too late").

Not sure what to do with this -- just make it a solo album by WK?

Thanks, Bloopy, for finding the rule and a good reason that it's probably too late to change it.

Without delving into the research, it seems to me that you could at least enter the Wayne Kramer side of the collaboration as a solo album. I don't know yet what to do with the other half. In the worst case, we could consider adding a dummy collaborator, as we do when collaborators are not yet in the database, like this: [www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/band/anni-frid-lyngstad/en-kvll-om-sommarn

I don't know that you'd ever want to change it. If the members of a well-known act went and released early solo bedroom demos, would you really want to split them up? Eg. Simon & Garfunkel. What if it was their grandchildren who had inherited the rights via wills and released them?

Good call, hadn't thought of that.

I hate the collaboration rule myself. It would be so much cooler if collabs were *all* treated as collabs, but that they still "linked" into the database, perhaps as a "secondary" link. It would compromise the pure-mathematical graph-theoretical structure of the database, but would allow the introduction of a far more widely diverse entities: Barbra Streisand would get in (on the strength of her collaboration with Donna Summer), Vladimir Ashkenazy would instantly be eligible (on the strength of his collaboration with Andre Previn -- still to be DB'ed) and so on.