[x] Another Collab question...

There's been so much discussion about collaborations that i'm sure this question has come up the past..
Black Mask has added a bunch of James Plotkin releases, many of which are collabs. I found an interview that said the KK Null/James Plotkin release 'Aurora' was the first solo effort for Plotkin (it's probable he was on some compilations beforehand but i can't find any evidence) so i've added 'Kazuyuki K. Null & James Plotkin' as a band for this album. so far so good (??).

Black Mask has added various other KK Null / Plotkin compilation tracks. i normally wouldn't bother adding comp tracks unless they provide a different lineup but now that they're in the wiki i'm trying to work them out. i think some of these tracks may be taken from the album (though i can't prove anything yet) and, if they do, some questions arise:

1) 'Kazuyuki K. Null & James Plotkin' is added as a band because Plotkin didn't have any solo stuff out previously. after this, any collaborations that Plotkin does should be treated as such because now his name is on a solo work (even if it's a collab listed as a band). so any further KK Null/Plotkin collabs should be split up into separate artists. but what about tracks that appear on compilations or as singles that previously appeared on the Aurora album? Can a comp track have two separate entries whilst the album that it's from have the two artists attached together as a band?

2) If the band name stays consistent throughout any singles or comp tracks that come from the album, another problem arises.
If the band name appears as 'KK Null & James Plotkin' on the compilation but 'Kazuyuki K. Null & James Plotkin' on the album on which the track comes from, would i have to add the former as a band name for this compilation, or would i have the latter as the band name and the former as an alias?

i hope this isn't too confusing or inane. i would desparately like to find an earlier Plotkin solo release so i could split up a lot of these collabs.

One way to work it out is if we use the example set by Neil Young & Crazy Horse, where Neil Young = KK Null and Crazy Horse = James Plotkin.

Neil Young has solo stuff. Crazy Horse doesn't. they enter into a collab which is counted as a band. anything they release together after this is treated as the same band, despite minor name changes [Neil Young · Crazy Horse / Neil Young With Crazy Horse / Neil Young & Crazy Horse] and even though Crazy Horse goes on to release material independently of Neil Young.

does this sound like a solution?

I think you've derived the solution yourself : once a 'band' is established between these two - anything else they release in that coupling is also by that 'band'. And 'minor' name changes don't break that apart. I'd certainly regard expansion of one of the 'K' forenames as a minor name change for this purpose - albeit I accept that's not a degree of leeway we'd extend to aliasing KK's solo efforts.

another quick question:

[bandtoband.com] http://bandtoband.com/index.php?PageField=Wiki&ActionField=var&AlbumIdFi...
regarding this release - Steve Albini has not released any solo albums previously though he did contribute a spoken word intro to a compilation. do compilation tracks count towards previously released material?

These are just my views - I don't make the rules... but FWIW... yes the comp tracks count as long as he was credited as a solo artist. As to whether a spoken intro counts - that would depend on context I guess and crediting style...

ok, one tiny more question. do we tick the 'Collaboration' box in the case of entries such as 'Neil Young With Crazy Horse' or do we only check it where there are two different artists going into the database that need to be linked together when they go live?

This one I do know definitively! Only if there are two separate entries for separate bands...

As misterpomp points out, once band, always a band. So any of these would be considered releases by one band:

K.K. Null & James Plotkin
KK Null & James Plotkin
K.K. Null and James Plotkin
K.K. Null / James Plotkin

This is because the punctuation and other non-letters are more or less exchangeable as trivial changes. We would pick the correct default and then alias the other band name entries as appropriate.

But Kazuyuki K. Null & James Plotkin is another entity altogether because the expansion of "Kazuyuki" from "K." is non-trivial. Therefore, releases credited to that band would be separate from the above examples, as in the Rule 5a Thin Lizzie / Thin Lizzy example.

Recognising my POV is inconsistent, but I think I would regard "AN Other + J Doe" = "Andrew N Other + J Doe", while I would see "AN Other" <> "Andrew N Other".

But that's maybe just me.

I understand what you're saying, but the b2b rules strive (I hope) to go no further than what the albums themselves actually reflect. For example, we don't have to know why Mike Oldfield released material as "Mike Oldfield" and as "Michael Oldfield"--the fact is that he did. All we are doing is reflecting reality.