[ ] Linda Riddle

(Initially posted into wrong forum, so reposted here.)

"Linda Ronstadt & The Nelson Riddle Orchestra" (1983): Collab or band?

[www.discogs.com] http://www.discogs.com/artist/Nelson+Riddle+And+His+Orchestra

The point is that "Nelson Riddle And His Orchestra" have never actually released anything as *specifically* by "The Nelson Riddle Orchestra" unless while collabbing (Ella Fitzgerald in 1978 is the other instance).

But it feels like logic-chopping to stick to the letter of the law and say that "The Nelson Riddle Orchestra" is a *different band* from "Nelson Riddle And His Orchestra". On the other hand I can't see a way round it except to join Linda Ronstadt and Nelson Riddle Orch. in Holy Non-Collabitrimony.

Comments?

If things are as you describe, then they should be joined. Remember this one?

[www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/soundtrack/im-not-there

I think Matt's point is where we draw the line at aliasing bands, particularly those as long in the tooth as Nelson Riddle's Orchestra which (according to discogs) have appeared as the below. Even allowing for the punctuation fluctuation and foreign namings which we could cover, that still leaves some changes which might be considered trivial resulting in the discussion Matt's proposing:
Оркестр Н. Риддла
N. Riddle E La Sua Orchestra
Nelon Riddle Orchestra
Nelson Riddle & His Orchestra
Nelson Riddle & Orchestra
Nelson Riddle & Sein Orchester
Nelson Riddle And His Orchestra & Chorus
Nelson Riddle And Orchestra
Nelson Riddle m. s. Orchestra
Nelson Riddle Orchestra
Nelson Riddle Orchestra & Chorus
Nelson Riddle Orchestra And Chorus
The Nelson Riddle Orchestra
Nelson Riddle Und Sein Orchester
Nelson Riddle's Orch.
Nelson Riddle's Orchestra
Nelson Riddle's Orchestras
Orchester Nelson Riddle
Orchestra Nelson Riddle

On the other hand we have precedent - we see these as separate
[www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/band/david-coverdale-and-whitesnake
[www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/band/david-coverdales-whitesnake

And of course we have:

[www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/band/mike-westbrook-brass-band
[www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/band/mike-westbrooks-brass-band

[www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/band/chris-burn-ensemble
[www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/band/chris-burns-ensemble

In any case, this prior crediting of The Nelson Riddle Orchestra from 1970 ("Look Of Love", Bulldog BDL 1039) appears to let us off the hook:

[rateyourmusic.com] http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/nelson_riddle/the_look_of_love/
[www.nelsonriddlemusic.com] http://www.nelsonriddlemusic.com/nr_albums_looklove.htm

Unless that's just how it looks on the 1989 CD release:
[www.btinternet.com] http://www.btinternet.com/~mike.leach/cd.htm

Ah, here's one more, from 1968: "Swings In Stereo" (Music For Pleasure SMFP-8134 -- an Australian release):

[www.ebay.com] http://www.ebay.com/itm/LP-NELSON-RIDDLE-Orchestra-Swings-Stereo-/200610830000

bgz to the rescue. That seems to fix the immediate issue - but mp raises the bar, and I feel I incline to his viewpoint.

Don't forget these guys:
[www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/band/willie-alexander-and-the-persistence-of-memory-or...
[www.bandtoband.com] http://www.bandtoband.com/band/willie-alexanders-persistence-of-memory-orchestra...

I don't see why we have to re-start this conversation every time we come upon a group of musicians who, as far as we can tell, intentionally chose not to use a consistent band name under which to release their recordings. We have a handful of time-tested standard procedures for processing band names and I think we should use them without any handwringing here.

If this results in more than a dozen different band names in the database for the same group of people, then so be it. If the musicians themselves didn't feel strongly about using the same exact phrases to represent themselves, then I fail to see why we should.

OK. Although before ending this conversation for now, I would point out that the lack of using the same phraseology could equally be that, to the artist, they are so close as to be the same rather than the (frankly less likely) view that Nelson Riddle thought to himself "Hmmmm.... this sounds more like Nelson Riddle's Orchestra than the Orchestra of Nelson Riddle, while yesterday's sessions were very much in the vein of the Nelson Riddle Orchestra"

Additionally, we have no problem with 'The' being added and dropped. We don't introspect on the addition or subtraction of this article or define these as separate entities.

I have to agree with MrP here. I don't see all these name variations he listed as name changes. This is not Golden Earrings dropping the s from their name and becoming Golden Earring (which I think is still the same band, but that's another discussion) or Purgatory changing their name to Iced Earth or even Fear Factory releasing something under their Spanish name.

This is a guy called Nelson Riddle and he has an orchestra. And when they release an album, whatever name listed above it's released under makes it very clear that it's the same band who recorded a new album.

Adding all these name variations as different bands incorrectly increases the number of bands we have in the database.