[x] Short People Got No Reason

I've posted a new section on the Rules page about the use of diminutive forms of first names. Let me know if there are any issues. Thanks.


Kevin

A couple comments:

1. The Nedjula Baguio question -
[bandtoband.com] http://bandtoband.com/index.php?Page=Search&ArtistId=14741
to my knowledge hasn't released any recorded music as Nedjula, but definitely performs and appears as Nedjula. See -
[laughingsquid.com] http://laughingsquid.com/squidlist/calendar/3623/2003/4/1
[www.workers.org] http://www.workers.org/2005/us/west-coast-0728/
[www.sfbg.com] http://www.sfbg.com/37/18/x_8days.html
"Transformation navigation Eight trans- and third-gendered women and men hit the stage at Luna Sea in hip-hop poetry hotshot Marcus Rene Van's directorial debut. An epic cabaret of sorts, 'Everyday People: Living It Up and Holding It Down' is a showcase of transgendered spoken word and performance, featuring local heroine Shawna Virago's Land Mimes, Rian Fierro's smokin' Girl in a Dress, and Ali Cannon's provocative On Whales, War, and Bad Men. Get set for a clever exploration of love, irony, and gritty everday living, from the streets to the sheets, by artists fueled by the fight to transform into themselves. The event also features Angelo Hannah, Nedjula Baguio, Aurora Grejeda, Joe Samson, and Beverly Smith. Through Feb. 8. Fri.-Sat., 8 p.m., Luna Sea Theater, 2940 16th St., S.F. $10-$15 (sliding scale). (415) 863-2989. (Michelle Tea)"

2. The rule leaves out the previously talked about "common diminutive" distinction. I think this is a good thing, and clears up confusion.

I think we should default to the strict interpritation of the Rules in these cases. If Kevin/Nedjula Baguio has only ever released material as Kevin Bagulo we should stick to that. The minute something comes out as Nedjula then the change kicks in. Sort of like the 30 years it took Cat Stevens to release something as Yusuf Islam. If that's how long it takes, that's how long it takes.


Kevin

Fair enough. Nedjula needs to be changed back to Kevin, then.

Back to Kevin. I wouldn't know why anyone would want to change such a kick-ass name anyway, trans-gendered or not.


Kevin

Along the same lines, this guy -
[bandtoband.com] http://bandtoband.com/index.php?Page=Search&ArtistId=15434
should be changed to Derek Jorgenson. He just decided to change his name one day to Eddie. Can't find anything he has recorded as Eddie, though.

I'm not a fan of this interpretation, by the way.

Derek'd.

New Question.

I'm adding a band called Duster. The guys in the band have always been known as Clay and Dove. As far as i can tell, these are their actual middle names. On this release -
[www.uprecords.com] http://www.uprecords.com/discography/039/
They appear as "C. Amber" and "E. Parton". I went ahead and used this as a reason to use their first/last names, which i found here -
[www.ticketmaster.com] http://www.ticketmaster.com/artist/799152?brand=none

Is this correct, or should i stick with the middle names, because the full first names are never used?

You are correct, sir.

No - that's not correct. If they are truly 'always' known as Clay and Dove and these are part of their names (and your ticketmaster source suggests they are) then they are Clay Parton and Dove Amber.
We've already (repeatedly) had this 'middle' names argument and (see Mud) resolved correctly that we do not treat middle names as some kind of shabby second rate substitute because actually there is no such concept as 'middle' names in the pejorative 'not a real name' sense. What we've done now is (assuming those Clay and Dove are their real names) is given them the name by which they're never known as their dB name.

The difference between the situations you're thinking of and what we have here is that there's a conflict in this case. Both Clay and Dove have gone by two different names, in which case we opt for the "real" first name as the default.

Except, as far as i can tell, they haven't used their full first names on anything.

Nevertheless, E. and Clay are not the same and C. and Dove are not the same--we've got first initials and middle names. That's a conflict, so we opt for the first name. Part 3 of the Short People rule is pretty clear about what happens to middle names. I agree that the Short People rule leads to unwieldy situations in which every entry for an artist might need to be aliased, but given the ever-increasing size of the database, it's important (fun?) to standardize this stuff.

Well I have to say I'm pretty unhappy at that. Although a 'first' name may appear 'first' on a birth certificate that's the only sense in which it has pre-eminence. Yet again the word 'real' first name (we really need to standardise on 'forename' to avoid this problem). sorry to be narky but frankly, that's a nonsense ruling. You've managed to make that album show without the name of the person and the primary name we now use is a name that the person has never used in a musical or personal setting. We bent over backwards making new rules for 'The Guess Who' but here we seem determined to get the wrong name in the dB. Sorry but it is just wrong.

I see what you're saying, although we'll always have some situations in which the primary name is a name that was never used. Is there a better rule that we could come up with?

My suggestion.

All the forenames of an artist are treated as having equal validity in establishing their standardized artist name. Thus:
1. An artist who is always credited by any of their forenames (or a normal diminutive of it) need not have a standard name that refers to any other forenames. For example, Les Gray of Mud is standardized as Les Gray because this name is a normal {diminutive of a forename + surname} derivation of his full name, Thomas Leslie Gray.
2. An artist who is credited by a pseudonym or non-standard diminutive will resolve to a standard name that refers to the forename by which they are always, or most often, known. For example Stipe of REM is standardized as Michael Stipe because he is otherwise always known as Michael Stipe and because Michael is one of his forenames {Full name John Michael Stipe}. No regard is paid to the order of the forenames.

It's difficult to write that into a rule but, I think, instinctively clear what to do. Before you dislike the 'most often' bit in part 2 - let me remind everyone that we do exactly the same for band names (eg Timebox). I have avoided the use of the misleading terms 'First Name' and 'Middle Name' in the rule and I suggest we do that throughout.